we also need -- there's a lot of high, high end science technology engineering math talent in this country, students who come from overseas. we need them to stay here because they'll create jobs in the united states. right, ed? >> so, ed, what is the deal? how do we get to a comprehensive immigration reform package that both sides can agree on? >> well, you know, joe, it's very similar to the discussions we've been having about the debt. both sides are going to have to give a little. there's not going to be a bill with democrats will not vote for a bill without a real path way to citizenship. and that's to some people in the republican party that's -- they consider that amnesty. it has to be in the bill. and for our side, we have to understand that stepped up enforcement at the border, verify for businesses, that has to be part of the bill or else republicans won't vote for it. each side has to give a little. if they do. this is easier to achieve than obviously the debt is. and maybe this can be a precursor to working something out on the debt. we need something in washington, d. d.c., joe